A lot of people talk to me about getting this sorted today or tomorrow. Stepping out of the door in the morning and walking into a worldwide paradigm shift. Or convincing every person tomorrow that our system will work.
The Z-movement is best kept underground for the next few years. Let the movement be the story, rather than the movie itself. We are still in our infancy. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I realise it is very frustrating (for us all) to be aware of such a truly progressive movement, and for it not to be public knowledge. We all want to run to the nearest hill and tell the world at the top of our voice that "we are saved". But any acts like this will always fall on deaf ears, and put us back months if not years. The whole human race has been "programmed" to shut out simple solutions, so don't be surprised if doors get slammed in your face. People just aren't ready, as hard as that is to swallow.
The BBC and Channel 4 are probably the most independent English-speaking media in the world, but they won't touch this with a barge-pole. Especially when the market turmoil is a far bigger story. Forget about Sky, or any American outlet.
Jacques himself said that the system will have to fail before anything can be done to convince anyone of our alternative. We have to play the game the same way the shadowy powers-that-be play it - wait till the masses are fed-up and weary, and demand something to be done about it. This won't happen if our network is still wet behind the ears. We need to grow...big style. With the best will in the world, I'm not sure if anything major will happen even in my lifetime (I'm 29), but obviously I hope it happens in the next 15-20 years. All that we can do is rub off Jacques as much as possible while we still have him, and solidify more greatly our plans and ideas.
So let the meetings continue, and let the test city get under way for us to gain any credibility. The best scenario is that the mainstream movie of The Venus Project gets made, gets released, and the great unwashed wake up to ask - "is this possible? Surely it's too far fetched to be true". And then voila! We have a major international network is place to further inform, and a fully functioning city to show that yes, it is possible.
So forget the mainstream media, most people are still far too gone, too programmed or in just too deep a sleep to matter.
Think of us as a sculptor with a hammer and chisel - lights taps create, heavy blows destroys.
:thumbup: I absolutely agree with you Ben, it's very important we don't become impatient and frustrated by the unimaginative response of most people, we have to understand them and answer their doubts and concerns being careful not to sound paternalistic or arrogant.
we have to show them the shortcomings of today society related to their lifes and be ready to discuss the advantages of a RBE but be ready to stop and take a step back before overwhelming them with too much information.
I accept I may not see our dream in my lifetime but my son will and that is all that matter to me.
Patience and understanding and never loose the focus on the final goal is absolutely paramount.
Love
Alex
[color=#FF00BF][b]I am ready to become the change i want to see in the world[/b][/color]
agreed
We all dream the same dream!!
so lets get together and make the change!!!!!!!!!
:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbup:
May you always walk in beauty,
Myra
[url=http://www.tram.btck.com]TraM Laurencekirk[/url]
Very well said!
We must all realize that the world cannot be magically transformed overnight,
the process will be long and painful, that is why we need to plan our actions and our words very very carefully!
:thumbup:
G.
I have to say Alex C,
reading that brought a tear to my eye, well said.
Trolley
I think we need some words of encouragement here guys... heres a vid thats gunna help people understand where we're at at the moment:
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iut4W3KLBbM[/video]
Well said, indeed. One of the most intelligent rants I've seen in ages - and i agree with every point in it! This is exactly what we should be focusing on - hand-to-hand information sharing without jumping out in front of a moving train which is current political system - we will simply get swept aside if not destroyed altogether.
Videos that you can link to your friends is the quickest way of delivering the information to the modern society - especially to the younger, addicted to internet generation, to people, who were not yet completely "zombified" by education/media/politics.
Three cheers for the patience!
See me anytime on Skype under rep71Le
My biggest problem and disappointment was thinking that the RBE idea was so obviously better than the monetary system that everyone would be supporting it in absolutely no time at all. I didn't expect to be finding so much fear, incredible unfounded suspicion and reluctance to change. Every day that goes by with the monetary system seems another day wasted.
Excellent posts, I totally agree with what ben wrote.
I also feel Zmembers get too bogged down with the transition phase, rather than doing the ground work of activism, as if we dont get the ground work done, there will be no transition.
Nobody not even Jacque, Roxanne or Peter know how this will play out when its time, just it will be ugly.
So I have the opinion of preparing for the worst when its time. But for now the ground work of activism is my primary concern and reaching out to as many people as I can.
Patience is the key...
Zen..... :silent:
Still waters run deep...!!!
We are all members of spaceship earth, lets fly this baby in the right direction.
One good aspect of it taking time is that it means we've got plenty of time to educate and research things for ourselves. Like finding out and understanding better agriculture, renewable energies, better education etc...
Knowledge is power as we say. So lets use the long transition time wisely and gain more knowledge :angel:
I am Exsistence and I am experiencing myself through lots of different bodies at the same time. No control.
Encoder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pOaJCIlUSM
Well I am quite worried about how things are developing worldwide with the monetary system, a terrible future doesn't really seem that many years away, so that doesn't do anything for my patience.
I wish I believed there was plenty of time for patience.
I agree in general with the original post, but I am unsure what triggered it, what is the context? What "heavy blows" have been made or suggested that may set us back?
See me anytime on Skype under rep71Le
I agree with all points.
But I think we need to be targetted with our activism. I watched a youtube video recently where some of the movement's members were shouting at shoppers in a UK carpark. You have to admire their enthusiasm, but conceed that little was achieved.
So I recommend a two pronged approach: consolidation and targetted activism.
Dan - could you elaborate on what you mean by "consolidation and targetted activism" please?
"In trying to solve the terrifying problems that face us in the world today, we naturally turn to the things we do best. We play from strength to strength, and our strength is science and technology" - B.F. Skinner
I couldnt agree more DC. I havent seen the video you refer to so cant comment on that aspect but I do know that people dont respond well to being shouted at - good manners and considerate behavior get through to people whereas shouting just tends to get people arrested.
mm I've learnt my lesson
It can be frustrating when you get condescending almost malicious replies from people you're trying to just throw the pitch to, but ohwell, we'll wait and See =]
My apologies if my observation seemed condescending, it was not meant to be. So, what do I mean when I describe consolidation and targetted activism?
With over 500,000 members of the movement, how come we only have an average of 5 or 6 online members using the UK forum? It can't be that there are only 5 or 6 people who want change; there can't only be 5 or 6 people who are angry with the current state of affairs. If you type into, for example, the Facebook search engine the phrase 'movement' you will find dozens of small groups all with objectives that are not dissimilar to those of the Zeitgeist Movement. What they don't have however, are the support and resources of this movement. What I am suggesting is contacting these like-minded people and suggesting that we pool resources in an effort to change things. That way we would be consolidating. And it can be as simple as inviting them to join this forum or watch the latest film.
Targetted Activisim. If I were trying to, again using an example, trying to get abortion banned in this country, then simply trying a 'shotgun' approach to get my message across would not be very effective. I would be seen as simply a man with a megaphone shouting to any who would listen. So what is the alternative? Well, with the abortion issue (and I would like to make clear that I have no opinion one way or another on this subject, I am simply using it as an example) I would get in contact with those who agree but don't feel the need to be an activist at the present time. Maybe get in contact with adoption agencies or those that have been adopted. Why not speak to those who have had abortions and have regretted it?
Now with our goals, finding those who agree will be very easy. Most people are angry about the current state of affairs but don't know that there is an alternative. So lets target our message to those who don't like the mondetary system. Lets speak to those who hate their jobs. Lets speak to those who have recently been made redundant or are currently in debt. Lets speak to those who are genuinely saddened by world poverty but consider themselves impotent when it comes to their ability to stop it.
That is what I consider targetted activism.
Dan.
> It can't be that there are only 5 or 6 people who want change
Funny you should mention that, but that seems to be about the figure for the entire UK of people who really work at change in a practical sense of the word.
I think if we want to see more numbers, we need more practical solutions.
> Lets speak to those who hate their jobs. Lets speak to those who have recently been made
> redundant or are currently in debt.
Be careful when speaking as they will ask 'what is the plan?', do we have a practical plan to help them today ?
Tomorrow ?
We need steps, a transition as it is fondly known as.
Whilst the ball has finally got started in the USA, with Fresco's film being developed, and hopeful profits from that to be spent on perhaps building a research centre, which is all very nice and dandy.
But meanwhile in little old Blighty we could do with a few things to offer people facing homelessness or even homeless other than, 'sometime in the future things will be better'.
Far better if we can actually help people in some way, then our message will be listened to, rather than seen as just another bunch of hot air from some group who thinks it has all the answers.
Firstly bravo to the OP, a very well considered post that make s a lot of sense!
As someone who tends to be easily frustrated by the slowness of this kind of change it is like a cool breeze to have someone post something up like that and to remind me that it will come in time if we just keep stolidly working towards it.
I would also say that what Nanos says has some merit too. There is a perception amongst people I know that are aware of TZM that it is essentially a utopian talking shop and that while the principles are sound there is a little too much emphasis on "how things will be at some point in the future" and less discussion of how these principles might be employed to improve things as they stand (if in fact there is anyway to do that).
Nanos is also correct in my view that many, many more people would "sign up" to the movement if they could see rational way that circumstances could be improved by applying these principles today.
Unfortunately I don't have practical answers any more than anyone else at this point but I think it is a valid issue and certainly one that I will ponder on some more.
Chris
http://www.christianmccormack.com
Chris
The main focus of my discussions on this forum has been how TZM will instigate its systems. PJ in his 2011-01-25 lecture talks about transition. He portrays ideal and probable transition scenarios. The former he also labels a “fantasy scenario”, with even the first step being enormous and highly improbable. The latter can be summarised as collapse, I told you so, everyone on board.
TZM should try to come up with something between these two scenarios. It is not unreasonable to imagine a credible transition. To some extent the intelligentsia have influence now that should be used to direct events, not wait and hope that people will remember the ideas after a collapse. Collapse is only likely to bring back the old ideas, as those that take power will almost certainly be the most ruthless and set about restoring hierarchical self-interest structures. The often trotted out focus on building awareness is not mutually exclusive with a credible transition strategy. It would be nice to see more ZM people interested in this critical topic.
http://expertgovernment.org.uk
Not sure if this is a general reply or just to you expert government but here goes anyway. I've read a few of these posts and I think the main concenus is that 1) we need to get more people active and 2) when people ask what the plan is we need a definate answer. 3) Everyone seems frustrated about nothing happening now. I think i have a way.
Firstly, lets all admit the horrible situation we are in. Any tranistional project is going to require money to do it. We can'twait for the crash. When the crash comes its going to be utter and complete chaos. Change will not come out of this kind of situation.
Now the thing that we need to convince people are working models, and by models I mean real world systems that can produce goods, foods etc in abundance for free. Why don't we start to really plan out and cost one of these systems. I call them LVP (Local Venus Projects) Lets cost a system that is buildable now that can feed a school for free for ever thast is off the grid and free when its built, literally just give it to a school. Surely we can cost all this up. The systems, technology and resource are available now. So lets do it.
Once its all costed we can present the proposal to the TZM/TVP top teams and see if they wanna put some donation money to it or somethhing and if they don't (as I understand this is a problem of sorts, long story) then we could find some mad millionaire or something that wants to put the cash up to prov it ca be done.
Anyway this has gone over too log on this post so I'm off to work out how to start a new thread or whatever.
If this is just a single post to you governemtn guy I apologise and can you copy, paste and repost for me, coz I can't owrk it.
Peace yall
> we could find some mad millionaire or something that wants
> to put the cash up to prov it ca be done.
As it is quite difficult to find mad millionaires, but easier to find lots of ordinary people with a few quid in their pocket, I suggest something like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance
The UK rather lacks one of these, and collectively in our backpockets here we have several tens of thousands of pounds just sitting idle or being wasted on pizza/etc..
It is on my todo list at some point if no one else does, to start one up, with the intention to see it capable of providing 0% interest free loans with no fees at all.
As I reckon the only real way we are going to be able to get help, is by helping ourselves with what limited resources we have to hand, aka pooling.
Microfinance is a way to spread the risk and has been shown to be very successful in other countries, so why not copy that success and do it here!
For example, this TZM inspired group has already been running a while helping out in other countries:
http://www.kiva.org/team/the_zeitgeist_movement
121 loans totalling $3k+ to date
Reminds me a bit of:
http://www.tenner-tycoon.org
The pooling money idea is great Ithink. I have had similar ideas but i have heard that ideas lie this have been shot down in the past by PJ and JF etc. Search the RBEF for more info. They had a bit of a fall out over it all, but I believe its on the mend now. Thank fully
I post on the US forum as well as thats where they are based. Something about fund raising for this kind of thing doesn't sit right with them for some reason.
I always thought that instead of playing the lotto every week all the memebers could donate a pound a month, isn't that about £5000 ish a month we could be pooling into LVPs over £50,000 a year to create demostration sites that prove that the tech is available to make the RBE happen? Imagine if we pooled the worldwide memebers? Even demonstration sites could help spread the word.
I'd stick a quid a month in right now. Like you say I waste that on pizza and a can of pop at the moment.
I'll check out those links too...
...tenner tycoon, I remeber that being on the news at some point.
Hello there Ben enjoyed your post about "patience'. I agree with your sentiments. Very wise to see the benefit of acruing expertise rather than running the risk of falling flat on our faces. I disagree strongly with the 'motion picture' idea being the magic bullet that will cure all dissent. You yourself said 'forget about the mainstream media'. But a 'major motion picture' , as Jaques describes it, would need to knock at the door of a 'major distribution' company. Think about the irony here (and perceived hypocracy): We all want to see the end of the monetary system - but this (accumulating money and assets) is the one thing established movie stars and sleeping movie watchers jointly worship. Not to mention the most staring you in the face irony: Jaques talks about a 'great script (cringing already. He wants it to be like Avatar!?!)... yet the Zeitgeist Movement was born because of the phenomenal success of the (wait for it) Zeitgeist films... and PJ is possibly the most credible, most articulate and most cool film maker alive right now. Peter Joseph is Citizen Cane and then some. Am I missing something here? Or do we just want to end up looking like the fecking Scientology gimps who 'made a major motion picture' ... oh dear oh dear... remember that day? I don't think most of us have stopped laughing since... and they'll never recover from that. D'you get my drift?
Ok, I'm all for playing the waiting game, I see little choice at this stage anyway. My question to all of you is how are you going to survive until then?
If the present system is heading to a crisis point, what will happen when it arrives? I predict wars, food riots and a lot of death. What can you do to make sure that when the dust settles you're still standing with enough of us to build the future that we want.
We need to be working on escape roots for ourselves and each other right now. We need to be cultivating the skills to survive the coming cataclysm. And we need to be creating safe places to escape to when it comes.
Honestly, I know I sound rather depressing, but that is only because I am optimistic about the project and am taking it seriously. Am I wrong to take it this seriously? Or maybe I should simply take the advice once written in the dirt on the back of a truck, "If you can't stop in time, enjoy the view!"
Ha ha!
Nic
I'm with you on this motion picture thing, as cool as it would be it won't do the movements any real good. It'll cost a couple of million quid. Money much better spent on actually making a working version of some of TVP ideas, technologies etc.
Plus the movements don't need a fantasy film, they need a documentary about look at what we built that sorted out such and such problem using our technology, and oh yeah you can just roll this out and sort it all kind of thing.
Inner Peace
Dr S
hi guys, been reading all the comments on here and this is where i sit. I would love to change the world today as many of us would but feel the world is not ready yet. I fear the world has to go through the collapse in order to right a wrong.
What i think we should do is create a physcial zeitgeist community. A place where we could gather and live, a light house in the darkness so to speak, just during the transition however long that would be. I say this because i fear the collapse will be devastating, everything will be in chaos so a safe haven and a place of hope would thrive.
If we could set up a zeitgeist community today, since setting one up during the chaos would be far from easy, we could do this now, make a complete self suffincent comunity. Makes its own power, housing and needs. So pooling money is a gd idea. I'm open to an suggestions
peace will be here soon