Will there be a finance/fund raising forum catagory ?

Well said Daryl no need for me to add to this

Take care of each other

sorry nanos, where would this credit be needed, why woudl we even interact with banks in the name of TZM?

and a pool of money is never good because some people will start dipping for little things then people will think ill do the same its not fair ETC. and it will give a bad name to the movement having a place where we keep money, at the moment we dont need any money at all, if we do then it comes out of the people running the project that it needs moeny for, and mayb a little help here an there from other members, we dont need fundraising because there is nothign good that will come out of it, except moeny that we probably wouldnt need.

and nanos, you took it out of context, where was the begining bit? misse dit out by accident?

Please see my earlier post with regards to watching the films.

You may also want to see this link http://www.justin.tv/zeitgeisttv#mychat which was found on the site you recommended earlier. Thanks for that by the way some good stuff on there.

Take care of each other

Ben

Hi,

This is my first post here, so please be gentle with me...
I would like to say that I am a poor person, so it is very difficult for me to hear people talking about how money is not important, or that money should be got rid off...

HOWEVER... I would like to say that I think after reading about the idea of an RBE (which is good in my opinion) I was pleased. This is because, if people would all agree on trading with each other instead of using money, then people wouldn't be poor anymore....or would they, because some people still have less than others to start with... what about homeless people, what would they trade?

I think on the other hand that it is a good idea that the Zeitgeist movement is not asking for money.
BUT...I think that for the Venus project to become a reality you'll need somewhere to build, so perhaps those of you with money might club together and buy some land - or maybe those of you with land could donate land so that we can build the Venus project.

I also would like to hear what people will do to help people like me. I heard PJ say that we need to all find a common ground with those who think differently. Well, if some are better off, in the Zeitgeist Movement, and some people (like me) are struggling to make ends meet, where the common ground lies - I guess - is that we both want society to get better, so that we don't have people who are poor.
BUT... I find it very difficult to see an immediate solution to my problem, which I feel very depressed about. I wish every day that someone would help me, as I have days when I don't have the money to feed myself. I can't remember the last time I bought myself clothes or shoes, or had a good meal.
Sometimes I get sad that there are people who buy things that are unnecessary like drugs, or alcohol or make up or designer hand bags, when there are people like me who find it hard to live day to day. It just makes me sad. I long for a job or for someone to reach out a helping hand. But every day I see people turn their face away from me like I'm a peace of crap they just stepped in.

I wish that people would see us people down here, as human beings too, change their attitudes, and spare a kind word once in a while for those of us who want change, but no one listens to.

Thank you.

BG.

Hi Bunny Girl,
first of all thank you for your honesty and secondly welcome to the site.

HOWEVER... I would like to say that I think after reading about the idea of an RBE (which is good in my opinion) I was pleased. This is because, if people would all agree on trading with each other instead of using money, then people wouldn't be poor anymore....or would they, because some people still have less than others to start with... what about homeless people, what would they trade?
The RBE we are trying to achieve is an economy based on abundance not scarcity so people will not need to trade all people will have equal ownership of all of the worlds many many resources. I know this is very hard to see at this time but that is because we live in such a money based society. Our goal is to end the rule money has on our world

I think on the other hand that it is a good idea that the Zeitgeist movement is not asking for money.
BUT...I think that for the Venus project to become a reality you'll need somewhere to build, so perhaps those of you with money might club together and buy some land - or maybe those of you with land could donate land so that we can build the Venus project.

To start things off TVP is looking at a research city they already own a large piece of land in Venus Florida and they are looking to sell this and move abroad to a country where this money will buy them a much larger piece of land to grow a bigger city showing how technology and nature can really work together. We are under no illusion that we live in a monetary society. At this time TZM is the activist arm of TVP and we are not looking for and do not need money as out main goal is awareness.

Again on this point remember that in a true RBE no one is truly better off, thats not to say everyone can have a hundred thousand acres of land because there just isnt that land mass to give away. But imagine a world where no one had to worry about all of the basic necessities of life, food, water, shelter would never be a problem for anyone

I wish that people would see us people down here, as human beings too, change their attitudes, and spare a kind word once in a while for those of us who want change, but no one listens to.

Thank you for your honesty in this last part and know that we are fighting for a better world for you. If you have any further questions please post them here or e-mail me directly

Take care of Each other

I cannot understand what all the fuss is about! Both PJ & Jacque now raise money for the movement. Both have admitted that as we live in a monetary society, we will have to use money! I have, as many know, called for the use of money for awareness projects. The ultimate goal of course is to destroy money. As far as I know, this is exactly what Nanos is about too!

I asked PJ himself about this at the last lecture in London, and although he AGREED, he is worried about it being messy and causing friction and problems at the moment. (It seems he was correct! )

WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO USE MONEY! And I can tell you that the subject of funding is being discussed at the moment and there could be an announcement soon.

My opinion on all these threats/supposed threats, imagined threats, innuendo, or anything else is, IT STOPS HERE! No more mention if it, and let's move on please.

People have different ideas of how to move this movement, or as I like to say, organisation, forward. Lets debate them yes, but let's not question anyone's integrity.

Jon

I completely understand where people are coming from who advocate a type of fund raising system for certain projects to help the movement. However, it just seems to me that at the moment, it's not such a good idea.

1. Who is decided/elected to become the manager of the accounts for the UK movement? You may have a voting process taking place, however not everyone will agree with the majority, so people's opinions on who should become the manager of the accounts are automatically rejected by the majority vote, alienating them to a certain extent. We can't have this as there would too many disputes taking place as many of you can probably imagine. Transparency on the other hand is a great idea (so the accounts almost become clear to all visitors of the website) - however there will always be a team controlling the funds on both incoming and outgoing transactions.

2. If we begin taking money in at an early stage of our progression, we may come across as an established organisation. This would surely cause ramifications down the line, for example, Green Peace are an organisation who take in money from third party donations and possibly donations from special interest groups comprising of politicians, corporations or others with an agenda which they like to put across to Green Peace so an agreement of some kind can be made between them. It's as if a group, once "established" and takes in money, are held against the word and agreements made with the donation/fund raiser... so someone like Green Peace as an example could be bowing down to money donations and the wishes of the third party passing money to them rather than standing originally for their own concepts and ideas as a group in the first place. Money is powerful, it can corrupt as we all know and cause established groups to stifle in growth and advancement within this current system. We can't afford for people with money to manipulate the movement.

It is important that we don't become an established group otherwise our ideas and thoughts on social change may not go as far as we anticipate.

Perhaps later on when our movement is bringing in millions of people, money could be considered for building projects, but because we are in our infancy as a movement, it's a delicate time, I think it is best to concentrate on communicating the ideas and bringing in as many people as possible so our numbers gradually increase. If you want to arrange a lecture event and don't have the funds, charge a small fee for tickets to the public and emphasize to your audience that the small fee for their seats at the event only goes as far as covering the expenses to run the event, no profit is made.

dale you took the words out of my mouth, we dont need money at the moment and i cant se us needing fundraising any time soon, im sure we wil get to a point where we will ahve to spend grands on organising events, and im sure the discussion will arise again but until then i dont tihnk taking money from new memebers, or even familiar members.

2. If we begin taking money in at an early stage of our progression, we may come across as an established organisation. This would surely cause ramifications down the line, for example, Green Peace are an organisation who take in money from third party donations and possibly donations from special interest groups comprising of politicians, corporations or others with an agenda which they like to put across to Green Peace so an agreement of some kind can be made between them.

3. Perhaps later on when our movement is bringing in millions of people, money could be considered for building projects, but because we are in our infancy as a movement, it's a delicate time, I think it is best to concentrate on communicating the ideas and bringing in as many people as possible so our numbers gradually increase.

4. If you want to arrange a lecture event and don't have the funds, charge a small fee for tickets to the public and emphasize to your audience that the small fee for their seats at the event only goes as far as covering the expenses to run the event, no profit is made.

1.Does this really matter? Sure you could have votes, and as you say, not everyone would agree. But whoever manages the accounts, with full transparency, does just that and nothing more. For them, it's just bloody hard work, and so it would have to be a group anyhow. And where's the trust that Jacque always talks about eh? This is fundamental to our movement.

2. I don't understand? At the moment I can't think of one group/organisation, political or otherwise that would donate to us and expect something in return given what we stand for. I can't think how a simple donate button would corrupt this movement? Sure as we grow bigger, and donations come in via other methods, we may need to be more careful, but all donations could easily be looked into if needed anyhow.

3. At current levels, by the time this movement IS bringing in millions of people, a great deal could have changed, and it could be too late. Just think how our civil liberties are being eroded away at frightening speed! I.E the new Counter Terrorism Act http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7888301.stm I think we need to act now! Or at the very least ASAP.

4. Tell me, how do you pay for the advertising for this event, and then hope you sell enough tickets to bring in the revenue to pay for the event itself? I could give a lecture tomorrow in my area, and I even have a venue in mind as well. But then I aint Peter Joseph who is known by a few people and so might attract a good size audience with minimal advertising. The cost of awareness is considerable, I have already spent more money than I can afford on flyers and dvd's, and I will continue to do so.

I believe it's very simple really, systems and procedures are easily implemented, its people can make things difficult. Together with good systems in place, we could really bring awareness to the forefront of this movement and move it forward at greater speed.

Please understand I only advocate donations/funding to be used for awareness projects at the moment as that has to be our number one priority.

Jon

I only have one question at this point?

Why do we need money?

I think Dale made a great point, Jon the only reason at the moment I can see for having money is the leaflets and DVD's but the thing is lets say we have 100 members on the site and 20 of those 100 are willing to put £50 of their own money each month into the project thats £1000 a month for flyers and DVD's!! Do you realise how many that is. I am negotiating a deal at the moment for the group where we can have 5000 quality flyers for £115!

I am looking at doing screenings of the films as you know, I think each event will cost between £50 - £150 including advertising so we charge people £1 - £2 to see the films if you are organising one and cannot afford to do it for free.

If someone has a specific event / idea for which we do need money lets talk about that until then lets put a pin in this topic as it will go round in circles. We need to focus on how we get more people involved in the movement as once we have a million people we will have enough pooled resources to need money even less.

Ben

i dont tihnk charging money would be anything but bad. it will contridict the movie you are about to show and the movement that we represent.

and i tihnk if you cant personally afford alot for the project you wish to do then whats to say you cant join up with another group near to you and they or you can help them out. In the end its action that matters with or without money.

Ben mate, you say..."I am looking at doing screenings of the films as you know, I think each event will cost between £50 - £150 including advertising so we charge people £1 - £2 to see the films if you are organising one and cannot afford to do it for free".

Do you believe you will get 50 people to watch the film at the low end of your estimate? I have been to film screenings, one at Aberystwyth University, there was 20 people there! I wish you well, and hope you succeed and definitely keep doing what you are doing, but remember you would also have to pay for the advertising first! Great if you have it, but if you don't, and we do have the funding, I bet we could find at least another 50 member who could then do the same thing!

Guys there is loads of us that have, and are burning the dvd's and printed our own flyers, doing web stuff too. But what i am talking in about would be on a much larger scale!

We over 300,000 members worldwide, imagine something better than my attachment blasted on bill boards around the country, printed in every national newspaper all on one day, and then repeated! On the side of buses and on 20 taxis and not just Heathers one! Of course there's a lot more we could do as well, if we had the funding and a well structured organisation behind it.

But, I also agree with Ben, we will go round in circles. But as for focusing on "how we get more people involved in the movement", that is exactly what this is! Apart from all the things most of us are already doing like the dvd's and flyers.

It aint gona be down to us in the end anyhow, but as i have said, i know it has been discussed and it looks good that some kind of funding will eventually come into force. Good to talk tho guys, and I appreciate all opinions.

Oh, and Dean, PJ charges for his lectures mate, I really don't think there is any hypocrisy here, but I get where your coming from.

Jon

I just hate the fact that this bloody post has got more replies than any so far!!

Anyway, we're not there yet and I really don't think money is important right now for what we are looking to achieve, but your right one day.

Did you design that flyer Jon?

I think its awesome

yeah but i tinhk thats to followers that are willing to get more information, i dont thinkanyone wasd there that doesnt know what TZM is about

ben i tohught the same thing when i saw there was 4 pages.....

Anyway, we're not there yet and I really don't think money is important right now for what we are looking to achieve, but your right one day.

Did you design that flyer Jon?

I think its awesome

Thats cos were bloody talking about it mate!
And no, cant take credit for it, again i just added a bit to it. It is good, i'm always on the look out for new ones as i post so bloody many down my local shops!! Use as required.

Lets hope one day is soon eh!

I like that one but as a handout for people who are aware but not sure about the movement you know. Like on a handout for the orientation dvd.

That way the statement means something to them. Do me a favour Jon can you post them in the flyers link not this one. That way I have them all in one place.

Thanks

Thanks

Will do mate, have a few more too, tomorrow tho, knackered now. :yawn:

Jon